tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post1668133363266784089..comments2023-03-27T10:54:13.350-07:00Comments on Winston Smith: It's Just Like PrisonWinstonSmith33http://www.blogger.com/profile/15780806194174659730noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-64211833134016241122011-08-11T15:07:21.668-07:002011-08-11T15:07:21.668-07:00'Pain is a teacher'
At heart we are all ...'Pain is a teacher' <br /><br />At heart we are all animals of varying socio-econcomic groups but subject to base / primal urges and needs all the same. <br />We need warmth, shelter, food and water to survive - everything else is a bonus but not essential.<br />Pain and reward are basic principles that all groups can understand (look at rodents in a cage). If we are deprived of any of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-74893589326867687502011-07-29T08:28:00.623-07:002011-07-29T08:28:00.623-07:00I am not confusing section 20 with an interim care...I am not confusing section 20 with an interim care order. We just called the latter that in that the parent still had a say in the life of the child therefore we had only 'partial' responsibility for the child.WinstonSmith33https://www.blogger.com/profile/15780806194174659730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-46193739670373203782011-07-25T01:50:10.184-07:002011-07-25T01:50:10.184-07:00Anonymous, Winston takes the entire fifth chapter ...Anonymous, Winston takes the entire fifth chapter of his 'Generation F' to show that parents cannot 'simply phone social services and have their challenging teenager removed from them whenever they feel like it'; but he does show that parents can attempt this without opprobrium and the State will connive in the breakup of families that are not seriously problematic. Further, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-10265756242786020852011-07-24T06:24:11.890-07:002011-07-24T06:24:11.890-07:00I think you may be confusing accommodation under S...I think you may be confusing accommodation under Section 20 with an Interim Care Order (where care proceedings are in process and the Local authority share Parental Responsibility). I've not heard the term "partial care order" in 10 years of working under child care legislation and would be laughed out of the family court if I used it. It's not about pedantics, it's about Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-91814892901676396852011-07-23T17:13:39.667-07:002011-07-23T17:13:39.667-07:00@Anonymous above
I see now that you just resorted...@Anonymous above<br /><br />I see now that you just resorted to pedantics. <br /><br />A 'Partial Care Order' is what many of us working in the industry referred a child being in care in accordance with section 20 of the Childrens Act. Perhaps this wasnt officially sanctioned by some goons in social policy but my managers on the ground and fellow support workers used this term.WinstonSmith33https://www.blogger.com/profile/15780806194174659730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-33351537178517660142011-07-23T13:18:46.165-07:002011-07-23T13:18:46.165-07:00@Anonymous above.
You are the one that is ignoran...@Anonymous above.<br /><br />You are the one that is ignorant. I have worked in the system. In one of the care homes I worked in regularly we had a board with the names of the children and whether they were on a full care order or a partial one (in accoradance with both section 31 and section 20 of Children's Act 1989).<br /><br />Below I provide a quote from the National Teaching and WinstonSmith33https://www.blogger.com/profile/15780806194174659730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-12248355978436946622011-07-22T08:50:00.980-07:002011-07-22T08:50:00.980-07:00Again you show your complete ignorance of the syst...Again you show your complete ignorance of the system you proclaim to understand. Section 20 of the Children Act is not an order of any kind so where you get the idea that it's a "partial care order" I don't know. You are correct in that accomodation under Section 20 is a vonluntary arrangement with parents, but this doesn't mean the child hasn't been abused or neglected.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-65091848340836531742011-07-22T07:12:45.967-07:002011-07-22T07:12:45.967-07:00@Anonymous directly above:
Several points:
1) F...@Anonymous directly above:<br /><br />Several points:<br /><br />1) First of all you are incorrect not all children in care have been abused this is a grave inaccuracy. Many teenagers in residential care are on partial care orders (Section 20 of the Childrens Act 1989) having been taken in to care with the parent's consent. The parent can withdraw the child at any time. Many of these kids WinstonSmith33https://www.blogger.com/profile/15780806194174659730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-574856291235535792011-07-21T16:22:10.897-07:002011-07-21T16:22:10.897-07:00The insults you directed at the overweight childre...The insults you directed at the overweight children were not young offenders at all from my reading of that particular post. They were in fact in a children's home - most likely through no fault of their own. You either don't understand the difference between a care system and the criminal justice system or you are deliberately trying mislead your readers. <br /><br />I never said all Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-89206275325322420532011-07-21T12:32:51.196-07:002011-07-21T12:32:51.196-07:00@The Child Psychotherapist above
There is some tr...@The Child Psychotherapist above<br /><br />There is some truth in what you say but it is not the whole picture by a long shot. Yes, some serious young offenders are acting out because they come from neglectful and abusive homes but not all. I assume you are only working with this cohort. Even so these young people whilst being more predetermined to act criminally still have the capacity to WinstonSmith33https://www.blogger.com/profile/15780806194174659730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-57029895156947451032011-07-21T03:46:43.076-07:002011-07-21T03:46:43.076-07:00These blogs show little understanding of the issue...These blogs show little understanding of the issues raised and are based on a restricted world view that separates the guilty from the innocent, victims from perpetrators and the deserving from the undeserving poor in a simplistic and banal manner. Issues of youth crime and punishment are tackled in a much more illuminating way in a range of other sources. Though somewhat dated I recommend The Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-11925013963092004402011-07-20T12:29:45.301-07:002011-07-20T12:29:45.301-07:00Anonymous, is it not possible to expect young peop...Anonymous, is it not possible to expect young people to treat respectfully those who are trying to help them, instead of insulting or being derogatory about them?<br />Quote from our host's 'Generation F' (kindle edition so no page ref. but at 27%):<br /><i>'Hey, Wayne,' I say conversationally. 'How's about clearing that [his messily eaten breakfast of cereal] away to Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-10537042598485295142011-07-20T06:59:19.397-07:002011-07-20T06:59:19.397-07:00Is it not possible to expect young people to take ...Is it not possible to expect young people to take responsibility for their actions without insulting or being derogatory about them?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-33404123197326312152011-07-20T02:20:31.229-07:002011-07-20T02:20:31.229-07:00Outreacher, it is your constant harping about &quo...Outreacher, it is your constant harping about "judgementalism" and suchlike and constantly mollycoddling the folks in this service that lead to this sort of thing. How are they ever going to become independent or make anything of their life if folks like you crowd round them and tell them how oppressed and victimised they are and bail them out of everything.Zenobianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-87852393130411852742011-07-18T08:17:51.011-07:002011-07-18T08:17:51.011-07:00I'm a child psychotherapist who's worked i...I'm a child psychotherapist who's worked in Youth Offending for the past 5 years. In that time I've had the opposite experience to the gentleman that ‘BinarySurfer’ refers to. I too believed in tough justice and longer prison terms before joining the Youth Offending Team, but in the last 5 years my eyes have been opened and my opinions transformed. The fact is that we don't work Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-76374509291923165912011-07-18T07:37:03.057-07:002011-07-18T07:37:03.057-07:00Outreacher:
I agree with a lot of what he has to s...Outreacher:<br />I agree with a lot of what he has to say and it is important that he is voicing his concerns to such a wide audience. This way we might be able to change some of the social policy that for years has kept these young people and their parents as slaves. This has been my experience personally and professionally, at my most cynical I can longer suppress the suspicion that young Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-32163492582091857262011-07-17T02:58:21.355-07:002011-07-17T02:58:21.355-07:00Outreacher, as evidenced by our host posting your ...Outreacher, as evidenced by our host posting your comment, like Churchill, he does not 'resent criticism, even when, for the sake of emphasis, it parts for the time with reality.' Your comment offering nothing resembling argument, I return to my theme.<br /><br />Falsely portraying Victorian times prevents our learning from their experiences--successes and failures, complete and partial.<Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-36337590338270168052011-07-15T05:43:15.709-07:002011-07-15T05:43:15.709-07:00You're on holiday? Good! At least the poor peo...You're on holiday? Good! At least the poor people in your care, some of the most vulnerable people in our society, those who really need all the help and support they can get - you know, the people you are paid to help - might get a break from your judgemental and insulting behaviour towards them.Outreachernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-50169762870144735752011-07-15T01:34:45.654-07:002011-07-15T01:34:45.654-07:00For those of you interested in my inane ramblings ...For those of you interested in my inane ramblings I will have another post up within a week. I am on holidays at the moment.WinstonSmith33https://www.blogger.com/profile/15780806194174659730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-41417601480446208342011-07-14T12:42:18.429-07:002011-07-14T12:42:18.429-07:00When will you be submitting another blog?When will you be submitting another blog?msbrodienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-12633391181323388032011-07-14T11:09:45.469-07:002011-07-14T11:09:45.469-07:00Winston,
It's a sad indictment of British so...Winston, <br /><br />It's a sad indictment of British society now that we went from remoulding the world as a nation by making judgements on what was right and wrong, to this situation where apparently to tell one teenager not to stab another is judgemental and intrusive...<br /><br />An observation; I knew a guy who went into one of the frontline public services as a VERY left-wing liberal TheBinarySurfernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-11673738355920133612011-07-12T05:53:02.410-07:002011-07-12T05:53:02.410-07:00Some further examples evidencing the falsity that ...Some further examples evidencing the falsity that 'a man could regularly beat his wife and children with impunity':<br /><br /><a href="http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18690920-851-offence-1&div=t18690920-851" rel="nofollow">1869</a>: Edward Pullen convicted of assaulting his wife, he was imprisoned for a year and bound over to keep the peace for a further year. Note howAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-18689836897873904752011-07-09T10:18:18.015-07:002011-07-09T10:18:18.015-07:00I beg pardon: my link in my post to the 'Baby ...I beg pardon: my link in my post to the 'Baby P' case is <i>Times</i> pay-per-view. If one is unaware of the sad tale, one can start <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1084972/Treated-like-dog-used-punchbag-The-life-death-baby-boy-called-Smiley.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>. There is an interesting article <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1206629/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-44019888460514617552011-07-09T09:44:52.311-07:002011-07-09T09:44:52.311-07:00Anonymous, the prison statistics I cited did not s...Anonymous, the prison statistics I cited did not specify children but adults.<br /><br />You assert that 'a man could regularly beat his wife and children with impunity'--that is untrue. Wives had avenues of legal redress and Police and Courts prosecuted accordingly; but such crimes (if unwitnessed) require victims to report it and testify. To illustrate, there was the case of Mrs Delvin Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5224377669164135329.post-82945414762943281162011-07-07T12:46:29.335-07:002011-07-07T12:46:29.335-07:00Thankfully Stranger we no longer send children to ...Thankfully Stranger we no longer send children to prison for riding a bike without lights. We should also be grateful that many crimes that were ignored in 1912 are now taken seriously - such as child abuse and domestic violence. While early 20th century society took a zero tolerance approach to the petty nonsense you mention, a man could regularly beat his wife and children with impunity. Rape Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com